Sure, many really deeply believe it and are beyond reasoning

canada goose uk outlet A review of a book about evangelical Christians Why Evolution Is True canada goose uk outlet

uk canada goose Lurhman studied one evangelical and charismatic sect (the Vineyard Christian Fellowship) for four years, and though I won be reading the book, two paragraphs of Worthen review are worth noting:If evangelicals are expert at conjuring God, they are just as good at dealing with disappointment when God fails to show up. When his presence fades or he fails to answer a prayer, it means God has decided that your faith is so strong, canada goose outlet los angeles you don’t need canada goose outlet location constant proof. “The concept of spiritual maturity allows people to reinterpret a disappointment as, in effect, a promotion,” Luhrmann explains. This is not merely a grand exercise in self delusion. Luhrmann’s subjects are aware of their minds at work. They acknowledge the elements of “pretend” in imagining God as an invisible friend sitting at the kitchen table. Vineyard teaching is clear that the Christian life requires mastering a set of mental tools. Luhrmann’s account, she says, “is fully compatible with canada goose outlet woodbury both secular canada goose outlet online uk and supernaturalist understandings of God. To a believer, this account of absorption speaks to the problem of why, if God is always speaking, not everyone can hear…. To a skeptic, it explains why the believer heard a thought in the mind as if it were external.”A few plaints: how is this not an exercise in self delusion? And I not sure what Worthen means by with a skeptic secular understanding of God. Is that like a secular understanding of Zeus? Perhaps she means that if you think God spoke to you, and that a result of a set of mental tools, then your idea of God comes from brainwashing. Finally, why does aware of your mind at work preclude you from being deluded?Worthen writes like a believer in belief, which is buttressed bythe last paragraph of her review (my emphasis):All religion is an affair of both the head and the heart. Luhrmann goes too far in suggesting that evangelicalism is all feeling and no dogma: canada goose outlet vancouver in her telling, the heart has wholly conquered the head. We cannot account for evangelicals’ history or their role in politics without paying attention to the substance of their beliefs and the canada goose parka uk social and scientific lessons their communities teach them to draw from the Bible lessons reinforced, perhaps, by the sound of God’s voice that they discern in their own ears. The most convincing “proof” of religion is not scientific but psychological. There is no way to undo the conviction of believers that God himself told them he is real and his story is true.Of course. Does anyone doubt that the convictions of faith are often based not on scientific evidence but revelation, and that revelation is largely (but not totally) impervious to reason? This is why most of us aim our attacks on religion not on evangelicals, or the already committed, but those with doubts, those on the canada goose outlet parka fence, or young people. The last sentence in the paragraph above, by the way, is a pithy statement of why science and faith are incompatible.In the end, all of it including the sophisticated lucubrations of theologians who spend their time justifying what they want to be true comes down to revelation, which I define in Feynman words as ultimate way of fooling yourself. Or, even simpler: true because I want it to be true.How many times in my 23 years as a christian did I hear this: always answers prayer. Sometimes sometimes sometimes Way too many. The hypothesis is unfalsifiable! (See Jerry, I read what you write). So yes, the self delusional quotient is very high (that it eventually got too high for emotional stability is what drove me out of the religion for good). Furthermore, a really obscure verse, 2 Chron. 32:31b, left him alone only to test him, that He might know all that was in his heart can be invoked if one is really spiritual, as hinted at in the review above.Of course, since one is not allowed to doubt, this canada goose outlet 80 off can be discussed honestly or out loud may be a good thing, as it may help to drive others out of the religion.Really just a the goal posts fallacy.It also subjective to a test I like to do on claims called the elven rain switch (I just named it that because I haven heard of it called something else.) If you canada goose outlet montreal can take a claim and apply it to something ridiculous that you make up right there and it still as valid as the original claim, then you should probably reject that claim.So here, [the elves presence fades or [the elves] fail to answer a prayer, it means [the elves have] decided that your faith is so strong, you don’t need constant proof. the name from the statement, you think elves cause the rain, then you see rain as proof of elves, because this is applying that test to this type of argument.Indeed. I think the social pressure should not be underestimated, and along with it how many people are faking belief (including trying to fake it to themselves, which is different than actually believing it). When you are faking it, even to yourself, rational canada goose outlet boston arguments still make their way into your mind. You bothered by it. It causes constant discomfort. As a result, I think trying to reason with people who appear to believe is not as pointless as JC suggests. Many of them just need the confidence to act on what they already know. Sure, many really deeply believe it and are beyond reasoning with. Many others, though, are extra defensive precisely because they know, in their gut, that they haven a leg to stand on. They are afraid, afraid of the change, afraid of admitting that are, gasp, an atheist, this thing they have been told all their life is the worst kind of thing one can be. They are afraid of the reaction (both seen and behind their back) of friends and family. It really is similar to being gay, with the self denial, being in the closet, deciding to come out, and so on. I not sure what helps that process along, for the individual and as a society, but it always sounds similar to the closet atheist situation that so many are in.I should add another dynamic that is not often talked about but which is prominent in my own case. Almost everyone I know outside my workplace is an evangelical canada goose outlet in usa Christian, both because of my wife being a Christian still (though I think in the fake to herself sense) and because of my canada goose outlet store near me history with that group. I find it very hard to tell people what I know, to point out the glaring flaws in their claims, because they find it so disturbing. Otherwise happy people can be sent into quite a funk when you pierce their delusion. On a social level,this is a good thing. Delusion is bad for society. But on a personal level, my friends are functional and happy enough. It hard to break bad news to them when you not sure that they, personally, will be happier or better off after they receive it. This canada goose outlet authentic is another side of social pressure, the simple desire not to rock the boat, not to make other people feel uncomfortable or bad.I feel your pain. I also know almost exclusively evangelicals (though I made a few friends since I apostasized), for the same reason you do, but my wife is still an active, committed christian, a YEC, and not interested in science canada goose outlet price (which is not to say that she is not a wonderful person). We have a don ask don tell policy pretend not to see the things she presents to little kids at church; she pretends not to see all the books on atheism and evolution that I have in plain sight on the bookshelves; both of us go out of our way not to antagonize the other.As for how to respond, canada goose outlet new york city I never initiate a conversation. If, however, someone approaches me with really ought to come back, canada goose outlet hong kong I always canada goose outlet respond in writing with my reasons for not doing as they suggest, and to this day have yet to receive even one response.I continue to go to church with my wife. I tried not going for about one year, but it made both of us less happy. I enjoy just getting out and seeing people, even deluded people. I just keep a low profile, refuse to say prayers or participate in other ways that would indicate actual belief. When it has come up, which it does occasionally but not often, I admit my non belief. As a small concession to the politics, I call myself an agnostic, though that is really too weak. It makes people infinitely happier, though. We sometimes go to a class and that is frustrating. At most places, I know the most Bible by far, both by dent of my very fundamentalist background (we go to more liberal churches now, which also makes it less painful), and more so because I read so much as I left the faith. This puts me in the often awkward position of being the person in a class who knows the answers, the Bible answers, and can say the most about whatever topic is at hand. And, of course, I know all the ways it complete canada goose outlet new york nonsense. I occasionally consider pointing out the nonsense, and sometimes I do but from an standpoint (someone says that God controls everything that happens, I point out verses that say he doesn But I refrain from being a damp rag. It seems rude to do so. They didn canada goose outlet ottawa come to church to be challenged but to be canada goose jacket outlet sale surrounded by people who will make them feel better about it all.My wife is fully aware of my views. There were tears long ago. For probably ten years we operated in a mode of detente, of don as you say. It is a little impossible for me, so everything I might have said about belief in one long day of talking about it has nonetheless trickled out and she absorbed it on the slow schedule. At this point I think my wife would confess that she is probably kidding herself. She was always a little flexible on YEC. That was the default, but she wasn canada goose outlet us rigid about it. She took a geology class in college, and she accepts that the earth is old. After years of kind of being circumspect about it, I can now talk to her about evolution fairly plainly, like one might talk to Francis Collins at least. She seems to accept it, but keep it locked off canada goose factory outlet toronto location from her religious thinking.There are a lot of social dynamics in play beyond just the clash of ideas.The interesting thing to me is how well the Christian church prepares you for time when God is not answering. I can remember multiple sermons where I would hear God doesn answer our prayers the way we want and that is a really good thing. Christian mind then gets to have it both ways. God answers your prayer, God is good. God doesn answer your prayer, God is good.I look back in hindsight and think how could I fall for that? All I can say in my defense is that when I wanted it to be true I canada goose outlet shop could canada goose outlet jackets rationalize it my own mind and make it true.Saw a mention of this event the other day, and shortly afterwards read in Hume of England one synod, Dunstan, finding the majority of votes against him, rose up and informed the audience, that he had that instant received an immediate revelation in behalf of the monks: the assembly was so astonished at this intelligence, or probably so overawed by the populace, that they proceeded no farther in canada goose womens outlet their deliberations. In another synod, a voice issued from the crucifix, canada goose outlet locations in toronto and informed the members that the establishment of the monks was founded on the will of Heaven, and could not be opposed without impiety. But the miracle performed in the third synod was still more alarming: the floor of the hall in which the assembly met sunk of a sudden and a great number of the members were either bruised or killed by the fall. canada goose outlet florida It was remarked, that Dunstan had that day prevented the king from attending the synod, and that the beam, on which his own chair stood, was the only one that did not sink under the weight of the assembly. But these circumstances, instead of begetting any suspicion of contrivance, were regarded as the surest proof of the immediate interposition of Providence in behalf of those favourites of Heaven.History doesn exactly repeat, but it rhymes.The most convincing “proof” of religion is not scientific but psychological. There is no way to undo the conviction of believers that God himself told them he is real and his story is true uk canada goose.

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